Navigating A Divisive World with Lorelei Rollings

In a time of polarization and noise, what helps us lead with clarity, courage, and connection?

Lorelei Rollings—Director General of Culture and Innovation at the RCMP, global leadership trainer, and certified Leader Character practitioner—joins us to explore how character isn’t just a personal quality, but a practical toolkit for navigating conflict, complexity, and change.

🧠 What you’ll hear:
🛣️ Why character is like guardrails on the road of life
🪞 How strengths, when unchecked, can become liabilities—like integrity turning rigid without empathy
🗣️ Why “Tell me more” might be the most powerful phrase in leadership
⚖️ How temperance and transcendence help us stay grounded in divided times
💥 Why every tough conversation is a character workout
🔍 How character gives us the courage to look inward—and act with integrity

If you care about culture, inclusion, leadership, or simply becoming a better human—this one’s for you.

Resources

  •  Character Quotient Assessment in Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/marycrossan/2025/03/26/from-good-to-great-10-ways-to-elevate-your-character-quotient/)
  •  Leader Character Framework with Culture, Virtues, and Vices (https://virtuositycharacter.ca/organization/storage_production_6e2934b8-3e20-47a7-aa79-59a612f967be/8505b936-d1fd-4b36-96ed-62663e1c5b9a.pdf)

About Virtuosity

• Website (https://virtuositycharacter.ca/)
• Monthly Newsletter (https://mailchi.mp/virtuositycharacter/subscribe-to-the-virtuosity-monthly-newsletter)
• LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/virtuosity-character)
• Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/virtuositycharacter/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)

Host, Dr Corey Crossan (https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreycrossan/), is a research and teaching fellow at The Oxford Character Project where she develops and facilitates character development programs for students, industry, and university partners. Corey’s love for elite performance developed as she competed in top-level athletics for most of her life, highlighted by competing as a NCAA Division 1 athlete. Corey translated her understanding of elite performance into a passion for helping individuals and organizations develop sustained excellence. She is also the co-founder of Virtuosity Character, a mobile software application created to support the daily, deliberate practice of character-based leadership development.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome
• 1:40 Introduction to Lorelei
• 3:50 Character Matters
• 7:41 Character's Role In A Divisive World
• 14:04 Personal Character Development
• 24:41 Building Bridges
• 36:46 Virtuosity Practice
• 43:08 Character Quotient
• 51:44 Bye For Now

Transcript

Corey Crossan [00.00.09]
Every choice builds character. On the Virtuosity podcast, we explore how to make every day a rep toward excellence. I'm Corey, your host and co-founder of Virtuosity. My journey into character development began in sport, where I discovered that strengthening my character didn't just improve my performance — it transformed my entire life. Since then, I've been gripped by understanding how we can intentionally build character to fuel both personal and professional success.

At Virtuosity, we believe character is like a muscle. It needs consistent training. That's why we've built a research-based system that acts as your character gym, making character development practical, scalable, and accessible, even within the largest organizations.

On this podcast, we sit down with participants from our flagship Virtuosity program, where individuals commit to a full year of daily character development powered by Virtuosity. Our guests will share why character matters to them, how they're applying it in their personal and professional lives, and the insights they've gained along the way. We hope these conversations challenge, inspire, and equip you with new ways to integrate character into your own journey.

Subscribe to stay up to date with our weekly episodes. And if something resonates, share it with your friends and colleagues. Ready to start your own Virtuosity journey? Download the Virtuosity Character app or visit Virtuosity to learn more. Now, let's dive into today's episode.

Hello everyone and welcome to the fifth episode of the Virtuosity podcast! If you're new, I encourage you to check out our launch episode with Mary Crossan for a powerful introduction to the series. Today, we’re thrilled to welcome Lorelei Rollings as our guest.

Driven by a deep curiosity about human behaviour, emotions, and connection, Lorelei has built her life and leadership journey around service, compassion, and continuous learning. She spent her early years with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police responding to calls for help from people in every walk of life — an experience that shaped her belief that real leadership starts with heart.
 
 In her 29 years with the RCMP, Lorelei has guided teams, mentored leaders, and contributed to national initiatives focused on growth, character, and culture. Whether training women police officers across the globe or advocating for mental health and inclusive workplaces, she operates from a people-first, character-driven approach.
 
 As a certified coach and character leadership practitioner, Lorelei is passionate about helping others lead with self-awareness, kindness, and courage. She believes in the power of character to bridge divides, lift others up, and create spaces where people feel valued and supported.
 
 At her core, Lorelei believes that leadership isn’t about titles— it’s about how we show up for ourselves and each other, every single day.

Lorelei, you’ve had quite the extensive journey doing many amazing things – and as I read your bio out, what stands out to me so clearly is the heart that seems to guide all of it. It's clear that your work has always been about people. And so it’s an honour to have you here to talk about something as personal and powerful as character. So excited to have you with us – welcome!

Lorelei Rollings [00.03.17]
Thanks very much, Corey. Yes, I am glad to be here and to talk about how character is really helping me in my journey and allowing me to deliver on that heart-first mindset while I go about doing all my tasks and responsibilities in this busy world.

Corey Crossan [00.03.37]
I'm really excited to get into the topics we are going to cover today. One thing you wanted to discuss was how we can navigate this divisive world with character. But before we get into that, I want to start with a question I ask all our guests: Why does character matter to you?

Lorelei Rollings [00.03.57]
Oh Corey, character matters to me because I think it's the absolute foundation and cornerstone of how we can protect and check ourselves, becoming better human beings. I don't think we've attended to this enough in recent years. For me, I had a kind of serendipitous journey into character.

I started taking a year-long life coaching course. The first half of the course — the first six months — was about learning about ourselves, doing a deep dive into who we were, what our triggers were, what our growing edges were, and what our core values were. Here I was, a 50-year-old person who hadn't even thought about my own core values — not the corporation’s or an organization's values — but my personal core values. Would other people look at me and have a sense of what they were? Was I living them?

At the same time, as part of my mandate at work, I became responsible for figuring out how we could implement stronger leadership in the RCMP. When I finished that part of the course, character became a really great tool for me to continue evolving — both personally and professionally — as the situations around me evolved and as challenges arose.

Character became this foundation from which I could operate. Sometimes I had to step on the gas, and sometimes I had to pump the brakes. For me, character is like the guardrails on the road of life — helping me stay in my lanes, keeping me from going into the ditch or oncoming traffic. It constantly shapes me.

When we're stressed or under pressure, there's a tendency to lean into our strengths. Character becomes that thing that reminds me: whoa, whoa, whoa — what about your humanity? What about your transcendence? Where’s your temperance? It's just become so important. I find it easy to frame character as a foundational piece for guiding us through life and helping us avoid causing problems that later need fixing.

Corey Crossan [00.06.16]
I love that — especially that last piece about how we typically lean into our strengths. One of the most powerful lessons I’ve learned through character development is how our strengths can actually turn into excesses if left unchecked. Courage can become recklessness without humility to support it.

Seeing the full interconnected network of these virtues through the leader character framework absolutely transformed my life. It helped me nurture neglected areas that, in turn, better supported my strengths. What you said really resonates with me.

Lorelei Rollings [00.06.49]
As you add that, something else that's important to me about character is that it actually speaks to our physiology, our behavior, our affect, and our cognition. It looks at us as this whole, comprehensive being. Since learning that, I am so much more invested in ensuring that my whole-person health is optimized — it's become a non-negotiable for me.

I know that when I'm starting to feel stressed and harried, and I'm starting to lean too much into those strengths, I probably need to up my sleep, or increase the time I spend in stillness, reflection, or joyful activities. That's a really, really important piece that character brings us as well.

Corey Crossan [00.07.42]
And you know, these strengths turning into excess vices — I think, as we get into the topic you were excited to dig into today around the divisive world, we can often see how some of our strengths, when operating as excess vices, can lead us into division. We have incredibly strong principles and values — we would bucket that under the integrity bubble in the leader character framework — but integrity can become an excess vice. It can become dogmatic and rigid when we don't have other dimensions, like being open-minded and humble, to support it. How have you started to find — what’s the role that character can play, in your view, to help us navigate this divisive world we're finding ourselves in?

Lorelei Rollings [00.08.29]
So much of what you said, Corey. I've been working on open-mindedness. I consider myself to be a fairly open-minded person — open-mindedness is actually one of my core values. But the more I become invested in something that I see as really important to fight for in this divided world, the more I start to lean into a self-righteous, dogmatic, inflexible state — which is exactly the opposite of open-minded.

I want other people to be open-minded, but in trying to push that agenda, I myself can become less open-minded. It's like how Nietzsche talked about: "Don't become a monster while you're fighting monsters." And I'm not saying anyone I debate with are monsters — but figuratively speaking, you can see how the more invested and entrenched you become, the more you knuckle down about something, the more you want a certain outcome... you can actually become the very thing you're trying to go up against.

The thing you're trying to quell is what you can grow into. I really see character as that balancing, tempering influence that helps me — when I get way over-weighted on my justice, for instance — to stop and say, "Okay, Lorelei, there are multiple sides, there’s great complexity. Where are you at with your humanity?" Coming back around to that.

I feel like I want to do well by the issues I care about, but sometimes I bring a certain immaturity or lack of sophistication to it. I either run too hard at it or I pump the brakes — I'm vacillating between too much and too little, and it becomes very staccato. Character helps me smooth that all out and approach these divisive issues in a way that does justice to the topic, the situation, and the dignity of the people involved. It prevents me from becoming a liability to the very causes I care about.

Corey Crossan [00.10.50]
That's so interesting — that idea of fighting monsters and not becoming one yourself. I've never heard that before, but it's really resonating with me. I can totally see that happening.

When you think about these challenges we're facing — where character is so important — sometimes critics say character can be overly individualistic, that it doesn't focus enough on the systems we need to fix, or that context so heavily influences who we are that our individual agency is limited. What role do you see character playing at the individual level when it comes to navigating these systemic challenges?

Lorelei Rollings [00.11.48]
First of all, I think the criticisms you mention are almost fatalistic in their approach. I would even say, if I pull out the dimension of transcendence, that yes — we are only individuals, and yes — we're up against big systems. But if we can start to understand the power of ourselves as individuals acting in good character, we can actually influence other individuals around us, and eventually influence the systems.

I think about the political divides happening right now. We have some people in the world who are — arguably or not — making bad decisions for the rest of us. But it's not going to be certain individual politicians who win or lose the fight for humanity. It's all of us together, at the individual level, helping ourselves as a group, as a collective, to get through what's happening right now.

It’s about our families, our teams, our neighbors, and our communities. Systems can feel overwhelming when you look at them at a macro level — but it’s absolutely not insignificant to act as an exemplar of good character. Even when we make mistakes, trying our best to lead through character inspires others to do the same. And ripple after ripple can eventually become a wave. Right.

Corey Crossan [00.13.29]
Yeah — I love this conversation about the relationship between the individual and the systems we operate within. A student once said something very clearly to me a few years ago: "Individuals make up systems." So if you want to change systems, you have to start by changing individuals.

We have to be who we want to be, in order to imagine and create the systems we want to live in. I definitely see a strong, recursive relationship between individuals and systems. Starting with our character can be so powerful.

A second question I want to build on — now that we've looked at character’s role in a divisive world — is: What are some experiences you’ve had that really helped you activate or strengthen your character to navigate divisiveness? You started by talking about open-mindedness — are there any other examples you can share?

Lorelei Rollings [00.14.32]
I think so. Something really big, poignant, and topical for me right now is that I am the mum to a trans person. A number of years ago, my daughter came out as trans. It was a total shock; there were no indicators leading up to that. I had always been an A2S LGBTQ+ ally from the nosebleed seats, and suddenly it was right in front of me. I was no longer in the nosebleed seats; I was up on the stage. Of course, I fully supported her while I still had to cope with my own feelings, emotions, fears, and recognize my own biases, prejudices, and stereotypes. It really helped me use all of my character to double down and do the inner work so I could be out in the world helping her introduce herself anew and navigate this world while also being a more active ally and advocate. I continue to take cues from the specialists and those directly impacted. I had to flex into courage and justice, but not so much that I overextended those qualities at the expense of my humanity, transcendence, and temperance. This isn’t solely about a divisive world—it’s about my experience, my journey, and my daughter’s journey. I really have to hold back and pump the brakes because we need to go at the pace she wants. While educating myself on the situation, I came up with many ideas, but it’s not for me to set the pace; it’s her journey and mine to walk alongside her. My judgment is so much different now. I’ve always been an ally and advocate, looking out for the underdog and using my privilege and platform for good, but now I’m more situationally aware of gender theory, intersectionality, marginalization, power dynamics, and oppression. As I navigate this divisive world—talking about trans rights and issues—it’s expanding into other areas where I see injustices and groups doubling down on what I consider unfair and self-centered. Using my character to navigate that ensures I don’t become what I’m trying to fight against. I avoid becoming overly confrontational, morally rigid, inflexible, or overly emotional—traits that make it hard to do my best work as an advocate. I tend to jump in to challenge bad faith arguments, but I know that approach isn’t helpful. I want to be a source of light, not heat—a person who helps advance these causes with integrity and values intact. I reached level four of open-mindedness in the app, although I did have a setback this weekend when my open-minded behavior wasn’t up to par, so I feel I need to go back to level one. Nothing in life is static; it’s very dynamic. I love having character by my side to navigate complex and uncertain situations, helping me spend less time overthinking, overanalyzing, regretting, or debating—when I operate according to character, the cognitive noise is less overwhelming.

Corey Crossan [00.20.08]
That’s a really nice sentiment. Sharing your story, I hear how much your experiences have challenged your character, giving you an opportunity to strengthen it. Your judgment now involves using your courage, humility, and open-mindedness. It’s a reminder that when challenges come our way in a divisive world, it’s an opportunity to see our character’s cracks more clearly—and those stress tests can lead to even stronger character development. Have you noticed your character changing through these challenges?

Lorelei Rollings [00.21.06]
Absolutely. Without a doubt, my sense of humanity is much stronger. I recognize that I live in a position of privilege—as a white, cisgender person with a good job and financial security. I’m incredibly lucky, and not everyone has that. This awareness has opened my eyes to what others are experiencing so I can no longer be blind to their struggles.
My sense of justice, too—I’m still working on my transcendence and temperance. It’s interesting because those are often the least popular dimensions of character, yet they are the most important. My courage now also means having the bravery to look inside and confront what I find there. I’ve had a very up-and-down journey of examining my thoughts, recognizing what I was ignoring or blinded by, and confronting parts of myself I didn’t like. I had to embark on a real inward journey and then turn that courage into accountability and drive: now, what do I do? How do I move forward? What do I need to educate myself on, make amends for, or change in how I show up?

Corey Crossan [00.23.46]
And to go back to one of your earlier points, you mentioned being in a place of privilege as you navigate these challenges, which is important to remember. One of our brilliant students and session hosts asked: Is character a privilege? Is having strong character a privilege because you’re given the tools, resources, and role models to help develop it? I think it’s important to remember that not everyone has those resources. When we’re in positions of privilege, we need to extend those opportunities to others—which is something we’re trying to do with Virtuosity in our effort to democratize character development. We have a long way to go, and it’s crucial to keep pushing.

Lorelei Rollings [00.24.39]
Yeah, absolutely.

Corey Crossan [00.24.41]
Just thinking about the divisiveness, and you were bringing up earlier the idea of being open-minded but not pushing people too far. I think this idea of trying to build bridges is a really challenging area we're facing right now. Have you been in experiences where you’ve really tried to build bridges? And are there any character virtues you feel have really helped you in building those bridges?

Lorelei Rollings [00.25.14]
Yeah, I think so. I've done a really good job of building bridges in some cases, and a really poor job in others. It's always when my character is compromised that I do a poor job. Even in discussions about politics with people who think differently than I do — and some of this is really close to home — using character, collaboration, humanity, and humility helps me sit back and let people share their experiences, concerns, fears, dreams, and hopes.

It’s not about waiting to school them in my way of thinking, but truly receiving what they're sharing, understanding where they're coming from, and granting people the autonomy to have their own opinions, even if they're different from mine. I have to exercise so much temperance because I'm so eager to push them toward what I think is right — and that’s not fair, just, or equitable.

If we accept the idea that we’re living through a crisis of belonging and connection, what we really need to do is connect, build bridges, and extend a hand. That can't be ego-driven or built on self-interest. It has to be about creating trust, creating psychological safety, and recognizing the dignity of other people.

We must discipline ourselves to appreciate that there’s value in what others say, even when it's different from what we value. On social media and from people in high-profile positions, we're not getting the best models for this — we see combativeness, divisiveness, my-way-or-the-highway attitudes, self-righteousness, arrogance, even name-calling and finger-pointing. These behaviors don't honor the positions those people are in.

So it's up to the rest of us to do the hard work of appreciating others who are different from us, and understanding that it doesn’t make them lesser and doesn't make us better. But when we care deeply about issues, it’s really hard to put aside the emotion and act in a character-led way. That’s why it’s wonderful we have character to guide us.

Corey Crossan [00.29.21]
That temperance piece — being able to regulate our emotions — is so important. I really see it anchored in temperance, but it's probably helped by other areas too, like compassion and empathy.

Temperance consistently comes out as the lowest-scoring dimension in our research, no matter the group or where they are. It’s no surprise that many of us struggle with regulating emotions in highly charged situations. When it comes to building bridges, I've been reflecting a lot recently. I think when many people try to build bridges, they're actually trying to get others to understand them. They’re pushing their ideas onto others. Rarely do we focus purely on understanding someone else.

I was listening to some research about politics and how political parties approach elections. One of the main strategies isn’t changing people's minds — it’s just getting the people who already support you to come out and vote. That says a lot: it’s really hard to change people's deeply held values and principles.

When we’re trying to build bridges, we have to come from a place of understanding and caring, not projection. Otherwise, we're setting ourselves up for failure.

Lorelei Rollings [00.31.06]
Yeah, I had a really good deep dive into active listening when I did my life coaching course. Life coaching isn’t about giving people answers — it’s about creating space for them to explore what they're going through and find answers themselves. It’s a lot of just sitting, listening, and often biting your tongue because you want to jump in with a solution that seems obvious. But you sit, listen, and ask open-ended questions.

That was a good education for me — learning to ask, listen, and seek perspective from another person without immediately flipping the conversation back to myself. Asking questions like, "Help me understand," instead of "Here’s what I think," builds trust and empathy. It bridges divides across race, religion, politics, gender, social class — everything.

Leadership especially often teaches us that we need to take up the most space, talk the most, give answers, and insert ourselves. But when it comes to divided issues, the best thing we can do is thoughtfully create space and give people time to express who they are, what’s important to them, and how they are experiencing the situation.

Corey Crossan [00.33.35]
Yeah, I struggled with that for a while too. What helped me was realizing that most people’s beliefs and values don’t really change. Once I accepted that, it kind of released the tight grip I had around trying to control outcomes. It became more about listening.

It’s funny you mention coaching — I recently did a full-day coaching training session, and we practiced asking more questions and creating space. It was eye-opening for me. Even though I’ve been an athletic coach, athletic coaching often leans toward consulting and telling people what to do. Same with academia and consulting work — I realized I’ve usually played the "this is what I know" role.

Doing that coaching training showed me how important open-mindedness and active listening are. It's like coaching itself is a fantastic tool for developing empathy, compassion, and open-mindedness — because you're forced to ask, listen, and not tell people what to do.

Lorelei Rollings [00.35.20]
Yeah. We often think the most special three words you can say to someone are "I love you." But I actually think the most special three words are "tell me more." So often no one asks us about our thoughts — everyone’s just posturing to insert their own opinion into a conversation.

To have a conversation where you say "tell me more, tell me more, tell me more" and soak it all up like a sponge — and to come away changed or at least different by what you heard — that’s special. I’m not talking about going into conversations ready to change your own values or positions, but you can still build a bridge with people by asking, "What’s your experience of this? What are your concerns? How would it be different for you if this went ahead or didn’t go ahead?"

And when you get stuck thinking of an open-ended question but want to keep listening, "tell me more" is a great go-to. It keeps the conversation going and gives the other person more space to share.

Corey Crossan [00.36.40]
I love that. I'm going to keep those words in my back pocket next time. I like that a lot.

So, in terms of tools and development practices, you’ve been using Virtuosity for the past few months now. What have been some of your experiences in terms of strengthening your character? You’ve been working on Open-Mindedness for the past four weeks, right? Tell us about what you've noticed, and even how you think it connects to this divisive world topic we’re discussing.

Lorelei Rollings [00.37.16]
I think one thing the app really helps with is staying in front of me all the time — always keeping character in mind. It’s a constant reminder. You start your day with it, and even when you get busy and distracted — like when your three-item to-do list becomes fifteen items — the app pulls you back to your intention.

I open my day with it, close my day with it, and sometimes do a noon check-in. It keeps reminding me where I'm at. I really feel the app helps me elevate my behavior rather than escalate things. It helps me respond rather than react.

It’s also helped me realize when I need to make amends — recognizing where I wasn't open-minded. Sometimes making amends means saying "I’m sorry," but sometimes it’s going back to reopen a conversation because I realize I was listening through my own lens. If I want to truly develop my open-mindedness, I need to give people another opportunity to share their thoughts.

Sometimes it means exposing myself to different perspectives. If I'm stuck in a social media echo chamber, hearing only the same messages, I know I need to go find someone on the opposite side and listen to them. It’s a light-touch way to engage — like spending half an hour listening to a different YouTuber or podcast.

Corey Crossan [00.39.35]
Yeah, definitely. I thought it was interesting when you talked about being at stage four in Open-Mindedness this week. For listeners who aren’t familiar, stage four means you've already learned how to discover, activate, and strengthen your character, and now you’re noticing the connection between character dimensions.

Since you’ve been focusing on Open-Mindedness, have you noticed particular dimensions that are helping you be more open-minded?

Lorelei Rollings [00.40.07]
Absolutely — Temperance and Transcendence, again. Those two. They're kind of like the dark horses of character, I think.

I have to slow down and pump the brakes if I’m going to be open-minded — that’s Temperance. I've even started habit stacking: every time my dog sighs — she sighs a lot, she's a happy little dog — I take a deep breath too. It’s a little daily reminder to breathe and slow down.

And then there's Transcendence — the idea that I don't have to win every battle. I can lose a battle and still win the war. I can trust that even if I can't see progress right now, good will prevail. That helps me not force my opinions onto others. I can have hope, faith, and patience.

Collaboration also helps with open-mindedness — working with people and building two-way connections. The root of the word "conversation" means "to turn over together." It’s about two-way dialogue, not just making sure I get to say what I think.

Corey Crossan [00.42.11]
That’s really cool. The Transcendence piece has been so powerful for me, too. I've been focusing on Open-Mindedness for the last four weeks as well, and it always surprises me how much Transcendence helps.

For me, it’s about recognizing that two ideas can exist at the same time — mine and someone else's — even if at first they seem opposing. Using Transcendence to imagine a world where both can exist has been really powerful.

I love that you called Temperance and Transcendence the "dark horse" dimensions — they really are secret weapons for navigating hard conversations.

Lorelei Rollings [00.42.56]
Yeah, and I love that! Especially because if you look at the model, Transcendence is literally at the top — like a North Star guiding us. It makes so much sense the more you think about it.

Corey Crossan [00.43.05]
Okay, so as we’re winding down, the last question I always ask our guests is about the Character Quotient.

For listeners who may not know, the Character Quotient is a set of questions Mary and I developed to help people assess how effectively they bring character into different areas of life. It's different from measuring how strong your character is — it's more about how you’re using it in the world.

There are ten questions: four about your awareness of character, four about the development of character, and two about how you apply character in organizations. Would you be willing to tell us a little bit about how that assessment went for you — which areas you feel proud of and maybe some areas you found more challenging?

Lorelei Rollings [00.44.02]
Yeah. So, I found myself flunking on Open-Mindedness this weekend. Things just got to be too much. It was about five days until the Canadian election, things were still going on in the U.S., and there was a recent ruling in the U.K. that was really problematic for me. I was not doing well over the weekend.

When I did the Character Quotient at that point, I scored 74%. The elements about character in organizations were fine — I scored high there. But the character within myself was problematic, and I knew it.

I watched myself in a situation where I got too emotional, too entrenched, too self-righteous. I was overweighting Justice and Drive. So, I gave myself low scores on "championing character at every opportunity," because I didn’t earn top marks — there had been opportunities and I missed them.

I also scored low on "character is not conditional on context," because in that situation, I was tired, spread too thin, irritable, and hadn't invested enough time in restorative activities that center me. I reacted rather than responded, escalated rather than elevated.

I had to eat a healthy dose of humble pie and ask myself, "Okay, now what? What are my next best steps?" I hit a guardrail. Now, how do I make amends and get back on my feet, driving forward in the right direction?

Corey Crossan [00.46.26]
Well, even the fact that you're thinking about all of this shows such a strength of character and focus. You've made character a big part of your life.

That one question about whether your character is dependent on context — I totally resonate with that being a challenge. I’ve scored it clearly as my lowest too. It's something a lot of people struggle with because for character to not be influenced by context, it has to be so strong — almost perfect. It’s a high aspiration.

Lorelei Rollings [00.47.04]
It really is. And I am but a mere mortal.

It’s difficult — especially when we’re not at optimal health or don't have all our "spoons," as some people say. It’s really hard to bring our best selves forward when we're at the bottom of the dogpile of life. And yet that's when it’s most important.

I’m really grateful for the exposure I’ve had to character — and recognizing the privilege of that exposure. I have time to order new books about character, to read them deeply, because I don't have to work three jobs.

And character is what helps me dig myself out when I get into trouble — it helps me become a better version of myself.

Corey Crossan [00.48.02]
Yeah. It's funny — the more you focus on character, the more it reveals all the opportunities for growth.

In Virtuosity, we use a 0 to 10 scale to measure character strength, but honestly, it feels like a moving goalpost. Every time you strengthen your character, the goalpost moves further. That’s the blessing and the curse of character — it’s never going to be perfect, but it's a blessing to know we can always be better.

When we feel frustrated with ourselves, we can remember: at least we see the opportunity for growth, and we have the tools to work on it.

Lorelei Rollings [00.48.50]
Absolutely. Even though the goalpost keeps moving, the more we grow, the better we get.

It reminds me of Maya Angelou’s quote: "We do the best we can with what we know, and when we know better, we do better." Even though the journey never ends, it’s so worth it.

If I think about where I might be without character guiding my actions, thoughts, and engagements — I don’t even want to imagine it. It would be a disaster.

This is a lifelong journey with no finish line — but it’s worth every step because it’s improving the health and quality of everything I do, and especially my relationship with myself.

Corey Crossan [00.49.57]
Yeah, such an important point — focusing on the process, not just the outcome. And focusing on the process will help the outcome too.

That was the last question I had, but I want to turn it back to you: is there anything else you wanted to share about character before we close?

Lorelei Rollings [00.50.29]
I don’t think so. I just want to encourage everyone doing this work of building character — keep going. It’s so worthwhile.

We are all contributing to making the world a better place. We’re each a ripple in the ocean that will eventually create a wave.

And I appreciate the effort that others are making too — because I'm a beneficiary of their effort, just as they are of mine.

Corey Crossan [00.51.03]
I love that. I definitely think we are creating waves, and they’re getting bigger and bigger.

Thanks so much, Lorelei, for sharing your experiences. You’ve given me and our listeners practical examples of how to exercise character — being open-minded while holding onto values, activating temperance, and thinking about transcendence when navigating challenging conversations in a divisive world.

I’m really excited for our listeners to dig into this and apply it in their own lives. Thanks again for joining us.

Lorelei Rollings [00.51.42]
Thank you, Corey.

Corey Crossan [00.51.44]
You’ve just finished another episode of the Virtuosity Podcast. If you have questions or want to connect, reach out to me at corey@virtuositycharacter.ca. I’m also on LinkedIn — let’s connect.

As always, thank you so much for listening. Bye for now.