The Virtuosity Podcast

Military Education & Leadership with Chuck Ansell

• Virtuosity Character • Season 1 • Episode 2

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Chuck Ansell (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuck-ansell-00370185/), currently serving as the School Chief Warrant Officer at the Canadian Forces School of Aerospace Control Operations, sits down with Corey to share insights on how he's embedding character leadership into their education and leadership training.

Quotes From Chuck

  • "We make sure that junior leaders, intermediate leaders, and senior leaders, all understand what their character looks like and learn about how they can recognize it in other people."
  • "I send out a weekly character email that takes a topic, whether it's a character virtue or vice, then discuss it, define it, and explain how it can impact the mission and the team."
  • "Our annual evaluations have changed to a character and competency-based evaluation - so character is in our evaluations."
  • "[Virtuosity] provides the information, it provides the avenue to track your progress, and asks you the questions that we should be thinking about to change a habit."

Resources

About Virtuosity

• Website (https://virtuositycharacter.ca/)
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• LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/virtuosity-character)
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Host, Dr Corey Crossan (https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreycrossan/), is a research and teaching fellow at The Oxford Character Project where she develops and facilitates character development programs for students, industry, and university partners. Corey’s love for elite performance developed as she competed in top-level athletics for most of her life, highlighted by competing as a NCAA Division 1 athlete. Corey translated her understanding of elite performance into a passion for helping individuals and organizations develop sustained excellence. She is also the co-founder of Virtuosity Character, a mobile software application created to support the daily, deliberate practice of character-based leadership development.

Corey Crossan

[00.00.09]

 Every choice builds character. On the Virtuosity podcast, we explore how to make everyday a rep toward excellence. I'm Corey, your host and co-founder of Virtuosity. My journey into character development began in sport, where I discovered that strengthening my character didn't just improve my performance. It transformed my entire life. Since then, I've been gripped with understanding how we can intentionally build character to fuel both personal and professional success. At Virtuosity, we believe characters like a muscle. It needs consistent training. That's why we've built a research-based system that acts as your character gym making character development practical, scalable, and accessible even within the largest organizations. On this podcast, we sit down with participants from our flagship Virtuosity program, where individuals commit to a full year of daily character development powered by Virtuosity. Our guests will share why character matters to them, how they're applying it in their personal and professional lives, and the insights they've gained along the way. We hope these conversations challenge, inspire, and equip you with new ways to integrate character into your own journey. Subscribe to stay up to date with our weekly episodes. And if something resonates. Share it with your friends and colleagues. Ready to start your own Virtuosity journey? Download the Virtuosity Character app or visit Virtuosity to learn more. Now let's dive in to today's episode. Hello everyone, and welcome to the second episode of the Virtuosity Podcast. If you're new, I encourage you to check out our launch episode with Mary Crossan for a powerful introduction to the series. Today, we're thrilled to welcome Chuck Ansell as our guest. Chuck was born in North Vancouver, British Columbia, and spent time working as a first aid attendant in various industries, including highways and mines. Wanting a change of pace, Chuck joined the Royal Canadian Navy and spent three years sailing around the Western Hemisphere. After his initial contract was up, he left the military but started to miss it instantly. He decided to sign back up, this time in the Royal Canadian Air Force, spending the last 22 years dedicating his life to the RCAF. Chuck is currently serving as the school Chief Warrant Officer at the Canadian Forces School of Aerospace Control Operations. He has experience from previous roles, including staff positions at the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School and the Royal Military College of Canada, as well as a non-commissioned member Professional Development at the Canadian Defence Academy. Highlights of Chuck's career include completing the Nijmegen march four times, deploying on a NATO mission, and being inducted into the Order of Military Merit. Last year, Chuck completed the Leader Character Practitioner Certification Program through the Ivey Business School, and he is deeply passionate about fostering character development and self-awareness in non-commissioned members and officers, guiding them on their leadership journeys. Chuck has a 19 year old daughter who is in college, and Chuck enjoys jogging, hiking, and mountain biking. Wow, what a bio! I was so impressed when I was reading through that. It's so good to have you with us, Chuck. Welcome. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.03.27]

 Thank you. Corey, this is great. 

Corey Crossan

[00.03.29]

 So I'm going to jump into our first question, which is actually just starting with why does character matter to you? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.03.37]

 So for me, especially in my line of work, I guess my chosen career, it really defines a leader. All our past issues have stemmed from a lack of good character and from integrity to resilience to accountability. And it's important as we grow. So for me, being a non-commissioned officer, starting at the bottom as a private, then working up to chief warrant officer, knowing what I know now would have helped considerably at the start of my career because I had 22 years in the Air Force, for example, to actually develop that. And if I knew what I was actually developing, it would help me. It has now, and I can recognize things now. And I see that in the junior folks that are here. And I try to help out as much as I can. But it's very important to me, and it matters a lot just to get our members as strong in character as they can be. 

Corey Crossan

[00.04.36]

 Absolutely. And when you think about your younger self, what are some of the things that you've learned that you wish you did have when you were younger? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.04.45]

 I think just a way to understand character, because it's always been something, you know, as we grow up, we're developing our character, but we can't put a finger on it. We can't pinpoint any of it. So I think actually understanding it and getting to the root of, I guess on how to build your character I think is very important. I would have loved to have that earlier because I would have focused on different things. I would have focused on developing myself and trying to be the best self that I can be, instead of just kind of following along. When we do annual performance evaluations in the military, and I remember as a junior member, a lot of the times you would sit down and it's a year of your work that your supervisor is going through. And they would tell you if you're doing fine, they would say, yeah, just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing great. Let's keep doing what you're doing. So now I realize that that's the worst thing you can tell a subordinate. That's the worst thing you can tell them because there's something whether it's developing their character, whether it's competency, whether it's whatever it happens to be. But just telling somebody to keep doing what you're doing, I think, is the worst comment you can make. So having that knowledge back then, I would have been able to challenge it to my supervisor. 

Corey Crossan

[00.06.01]

 Yeah, absolutely. That's so powerful. And I think, you know, the awareness of character and having the wheel, it helps give that directionality as well for development. I remember growing up for myself, I was always trying to do something, but I was doing more of the things that I was already really good at. And as we know in character, those virtues become excess vices so that wheel giving you that kind of holistic roadmap can be really powerful. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.06.26]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then, yeah, other tools. I mean, it took a while to get where I am, and I'm not saying it would have helped speed up the process, but it would have made me, I think, a better leader as I'm as I'm climbing up the ranks for sure.

Corey Crossan

[00.06.41]

 Absolutely. So how are you applying character in your own life and what are the different kind of examples or the impact that that's making in your life, whether it's your personal or professional life? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.06.54]

I think, professional life, it's impacting more. I'm becoming more aware of my vices. I tailor my responses and actions to align with how I want my character be. In my current position as the school chief warrant officer, I'm kind of like the vice principal, I guess, of this unit. So I do all the discipline. I do the corrective feedback and measures. So for me, I deal with a lot of people and it's not always bad, but, I mean, I deal with the bad and the good, but I deal with a lot of people and being able to present myself as compassionate and resilient because I'm setting the example for somebody else. So I have to live that example that I want them to be. Integrity is huge for me. I think I put integrity over everything else. I've always valued integrity high. And it's not just because I started, diving more into character, but it's always been something that's important for me. So as I learned the other, traits, if you will. I'm conscious of that in myself and in other people. So I help as much as I can to kind of develop myself and other people. 

Corey Crossan

[00.08.16]

 Yeah, that's really powerful. And I heard you, you know, mention the vices word at the beginning. And in case the listeners aren't as familiar with that word and character, we talk about virtues being these kind of human excellences and then vices being the kind of absence of virtue. They can be deficient or excess vices. And so I was wondering if you'd be willing to share perhaps 1 or 2 vices that you're really working on. And I can actually maybe just share first. Like, for me, I'm always struggling to develop my vulnerability. So the lack of vulnerability can really look like you're being protective. And we know that when you're not showing vulnerability, it can really, it doesn't create really a psychologically safe environment. It doesn't create trust. So that's something that I'm continuously working on. What are the vices, what are 1 or 2 vices that stand out for you that you're constantly working on? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.09.09]

 I think the biggest one is humanity. For me right now, being considered empathetic, compassionate, and forgiving, I think for me, in my position, that's the key because I deal with people. Constantly all day is being compassionate about where. Because everybody's different. Right. And I know for us, we're all in the same career. We're in the same organization or whatever. But we've all had a different path getting to where we are. We've had a different growing up. We've had a different, we've had different supervisors and different experiences and everything else. So actually being compassionate and empathetic, with the members that I'm dealing with has been a huge, I guess, focus of mine. You know, historically the military has always kind of just, yeah, whatever, do what you need to do. Get out of here. And so for me and nowadays, right, we have to be more compassionate when we're dealing with people. We still have a job to do, and that's what we're fighting. But at the end of the day, we can be compassionate when we're not actually fighting wars, right? 

Corey Crossan

[00.10.25]

 Absolutely. And I think it gets to this really interesting concept in character that we can have these “and” possibilities. And I think a lot of times we think that if we're compassionate, we may not be brave or strong or determined, but has your experience been that you can be both kind of, you know, strong and compassionate at the same time? Or has that been a challenge for you? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.10.47]

 No, no. absolutely. We have to be. Like, you know, if you want to climb the ranks in the military and if you want people to follow you, I mean, just because you put the rank on, right, you automatically now get all the responsibility and the authority that comes with that. But I would rather have people follow me because of me, not because of the rank I wear. Right. So there are areas that we can do better at. There are areas that we can improve at and just living that and showing and setting the example for other people. Yeah, that is really big for me. 

Corey Crossan

[00.11.28]

 Yeah. So one of your big roles is in the education space. What are you doing right now to embed character into education? And what are some of the challenges that you're facing with that? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.11.40]

 So the school that I'm at or the unit that I'm at is aerospace control. So we do military air traffic control, and air defense because we have the air defense mission mostly for NORAD. So we train the folks that are coming through there. In my previous roles at the Canadian Defense Academy, I was doing, NCM, non-commissioned member, professional development and they have, I want to say five, there's probably more, 5 or 6. There's three main ones and then two additional ones, training, leadership, programs, I guess for junior leaderships, intermediate leaderships and senior leadership. So we have rewritten those, we've written that training and we're looking at putting character into the training. So the intermediate and the senior ones all, have a character component to it. There's not only the, Ivey material like the leader character framework, but there's also the, EQ emotional quotient. And then so I've done three of those in the training. But working that in and making sure that the folks that are going through the junior leaders or the intermediate leaders or the senior leaders that are going through actually understand their character and learn about how they can recognize it in other people. So that's a huge shift for us is to is to focus on character here at this school. I send out a weekly, I call it Character Friday email, that takes a topic, whether it's a character trait, a vice or a virtue, and then discuss it, define it and explain how it can impact the mission or the team. So I want the discussion. I want there to be a discussion about that. I want people to actually come forward and ask questions or send me emails and feedback. but those are geared for the staff as well as the students. So I want the staff to go into the classroom now with their students and actually talk to them about it. And then when they're sitting doing a simulated, training, I guess, simulated exercise. So think of an ATC tower at an airport. We have a simulator that that they go through the process in. It's all the reaction and how the student handles themselves in that simulator. We have successful ones. We have unsuccessful students. We have people that are struggling. We have people that find it easy. So trying to find a balance and having the instructor actually identify that and help the student identify it in themselves and how to work through it. 

Corey Crossan

[00.14.14]

 That is so cool! I love the Friday newsletter idea and I love especially the application. Like bringing it to the teachers and the students. One of the common questions we get is, how do you equip all of the teachers to bring character into their classrooms? There's just, we have such a shortage of curriculum real estate and this idea that you just kind of put that topic out there for both the teacher and the student to think about. It can be seamlessly brought into whatever the competencies or skills they're learning. And so I think that's absolutely brilliant. So I'm sure a lot of people will be picking up that that tip, whether it's a newsletter or however you get that information out there, it's such a good idea. What are some of the challenges that you're experiencing? Are you experiencing any challenge areas? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.15.03]

 The biggest challenge is, here anyway that I've dealt with, is the acceptance of a dimension's deficiency or excess from people. So having it identified and then that person accepting it. So even I went through this. So last year when I when I heard, oh sorry, year and a half ago when I was posted here, when I moved to the school into the position that annual appraisal I have to do one to one. So my commanding officer writes on me, writes my appraisal, and then I sit down with him and he goes through it. He actually used the Ivey leader character model and colored the circles green or red and, and actually had it up for me. And he showed me, and I looked at it, he said, this is what I think you’re high on, your dimensions at your high end. And this is what I think you’re low on. And he had indicated that I was low in transcendence, and it took me a bit to process that. But as it turns out, I was but just now, granted, that's one person's opinion, right? I didn't get, I don't survey the unit or anything like that, but it made me think. And for him to take the time to do that, I was very impressed with that because he's now working at it and this is the commanding officer of the unit, so, he's working character in. He's working it in. And it doesn't matter what position you hold or rank you hold. This is important for all of us. So most of the people that I've spoken to have accepted 1 or 2 of the high or low dimensions, but not all of them. So the challenge is that we need to accept the areas of low dimensions in order to balance it out with others. Right. So I think it's a matter of being able to recognize it in ourselves, identify it in others. And then when you're having that discussion, having those other people actually accept, that it might not be all roses that they see, right? There might be areas that they need to work on, and that's fine. Right. There's strengths and there's areas that need to be worked on. And once we accept those, I think character is going to play, come into spotlight a little bit more, I think. 

Corey Crossan

[00.17.17]

 Mhm. Absolutely. I think that's such a prevalent challenge area that we experience too, in our teaching and in our programs and this idea of yeah, getting people to I think, be happy with where they're at, at the same time with seeing what could be better. And we actually, I would say a lot of people when we talk about vices, sometimes we get pushback that, you know, I actually love myself for who I am. This is who I am, and I'm not going to change who I am. And I think that's really a lot of the messaging that we've had around being authentic, authentic leadership. And when we look at authenticity and its excess vice, it can be dogmatic and rigid. And so I think this idea that people don't want to change and they even like their vices, it is good to accept who you are. But we should also be striving to be better. And so that is a challenge that we're working with as well. So it's interesting that you're facing similar ones.

Chuck Ansell

[00.18.16]

 And it's not all bad. Like, it's not it's not this isn't meant to be bad in any way. The discussions and having, you know, having these, traits or virtues and vices being identified, it's not meant to be bad. It's meant to help the member, work on building their character. And I think the only way we can change anything is communication. And we have to communicate that with people, and we have to learn how to have the hard conversations sometimes. But we also have to recognize, strong character as well. Right? 

Corey Crossan

[00.18.52]

 Absolutely. Yeah. Embracing all of that. Yeah, absolutely. So you're also in the area of well, first of all, were there any other challenges that you are facing in education, or is that pretty much the kind of main one that you're facing? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.19.06]

 That's the main one I see a lot. And that's not just here. That's in any of the leadership courses or even the ones that I've been on like that I've been a student on. The biggest thing is for people to actually accept what they're being told. Now, again, I mentioned it earlier, but it's just because one person tells you something doesn't mean it's true. Right. So at the same time. But that should, spark an idea or get the notion for somebody to actually start looking into it if it is true. Right. So I can if I'm told something, then I'm going to go look at it, investigate it and see if it's actually true or not. And that's the same for character. So when I sat down with the CEO and he pointed to the areas that he had identified, I had to process that. It took me a day or two to process that and actually go through. And I said, yeah, you know what? He's right. I agree with maybe two out of the four. But he's right about this other one. 

Corey Crossan

[00.20.07]

 Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so important. At the very least, it does open up, like you said, like discussion around character, reflection around character. And I even had a similar instance where I had joined a team a few years ago, and I had my manager, we actually did character assessments of each other because we're actually in the character space. And so it was something good that we could do. And she rated me quite low on drive, which is something I know I'm like really not low on. But actually what it said to me was that I'm not showing, I'm not exhibiting strong drive to her. If she can't see it, then there is a gap between what I think I am and what she's picking up. And so even, even if you do have that, it's actually how can you be more explicit with showing that character dimension as well. So it's always worthwhile. Whether it's a 360 or a person's reflection, it will create some kind of change. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.21.01]

 It's funny because I had I had a similar experience, so I did the EQ, the emotional quotient, survey, I guess, which gives the read out. And I was low in empathy and I had, I was going through the executive coaching program, so I had a coach and it wasn't specific to character, it was just a coach. And I brought that up and I said, I did this survey. As it turns out, I'm low on empathy. And we talked through it for about an hour. And at the end of it, it was the same thing. I am an empathetic person. I just might not display it all the time. Right? But the thought and the notion is still there. But I might not be, exuding, empathy. Right. And that was something interesting, too. So for what went from what started with me not agreeing with it and saying, no, this is wrong, turned into how do I display empathy? So yeah, it's interesting. 

Corey Crossan

[00.21.58]

 That's one part that I really do love about the character stuff, is that it's focused on observable behaviors. And the classic quote we hear Mary Crossan say all the time is that we judge ourselves on our intentions and we judge others on their actions, their behaviors. And so these conversations we're both talking about are about closing that gap between our intention and behavior, which I think is so powerful. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.22.19]

Absolutely. Yep. 

Corey Crossan

[00.22.22]

 Okay. So you're also in the area of leadership development. So what are you doing right now to embed character into leadership development. And what are the opportunities that you see in that? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.22.34]

 So we have the Canadian Armed Forces has obviously ethos, and they've put it out. It’s the program, I guess, that is delivering, the lesson behind the ethos is called Trusted to Serve. So the CEO and I actually give a trusted to serve brief to every single class. So for us getting up in front, so you have the, the two senior people at the unit getting up in front of brand new, you know, this is their second stop on their military training, destination. So having us get up there and talk about it, but also show that we believe in it and we, agree with it and we want people to live it. Right. So demonstrating that in front of them, when they do debriefs with the students, when the instructors do debriefs with the students after a mission or after an exercise, working character in there as well. So maybe it's the way the student reacted to the situation, or maybe it was the way they responded to the debrief or feedback or whatever the case may be, but actually having the instructors point out the character parts and why that might need to be adjusted or why it might be strong. Yes. And then of course, putting it into the CAF lessons and the training that, that we're trying to do for our, especially junior leaders because I think, you know, a lot of focus is given to the senior leaders and sometimes the junior leaders just kind of get the, the hand-me-downs and say, yeah, there you go. But I think putting maybe more character heavy briefings and lessons into, at the junior leader position is going to help because they'll retain that for their career and they can work on it and build it. 

Corey Crossan

[00.24.28]

Wow. It's pretty incredible to see all the different areas that you are bringing character into leadership development. And what are the opportunities that you see in this in terms of, are there any potential areas that you want to keep building into leadership development? Are there kind of outcomes that you're seeing that are really incredible from bringing character into it? What are those opportunities that you see? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.24.54]

 I think, it's a different way of thinking. So our performance based, our evaluation, our annual evaluations have changed to a character and competency based evaluation. So character is in our evaluations, right? So that's huge for us. So seeing people actually want to take the time to learn about their character and even talking amongst themselves, amongst peers in an office. Mentioning something that they noticed and then having a conversation about that. I don't remember that ever happening before in my career before this time. And that's great because peers, helping peers, leaders helping subordinates. Even subordinates, we had a student here, who had he would do the annual, appraisal with his subordinate. And then immediately after that was done, ask his subordinate what he thought about him. Right and to identify the areas, the character areas that he needs to work on or that he's strong at, and that maybe it's an Air Force thing, I don't know, but I couldn't see that happening five years ago, six years ago in any of the other elements. So I think this is good. And I think we're going the step in the right direction for sure. 

Corey Crossan

[00.26.12]

 Absolutely. And I think, you know, when we talk about leadership development, when we think about the skills and competencies, that's about what we do. And it's funny that I feel like it's taken us so long to bring the character aspect, thinking about who we are as people and able to do the skills that we're doing. So it's such a central and foundational part. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.26.32]

 Absolutely. 

Corey Crossan

[00.26.34]

 So you just started I would say, I think you were introduced to the Virtuosity app a while ago, but you've just started on the Virtuosity program in January, really committing to it now. So you're still, I would say early on in the Virtuosity commitment area, but just with the few weeks or so that you've had, what are the opportunities that you see, being able to leverage Virtuosity in the education and leadership development areas that you're working in?

Chuck Ansell

[00.27.02]

 So the Virtuosity, I think is a lot like, Babbel or Rosetta Stone or one of the language training apps that you can get. It's idea, once you get into the habit of actually doing it, it's a daily reminder. And it gives you the resources. So it's not just turn it on, click a few buttons and then turn it off. You can actually dive into more about the trait or how to develop it and it's interesting to see how your week, I guess, unfolds through the character. So I think having that app or having the ability to journal or log your character journey is huge because when you look back at it, you can see how far you've come, or you can see the areas that you spent time focusing on and whether it's paid off or not, I guess. 

Corey Crossan

[00.27.57]

 Absolutely. And yeah, I like the idea that, you know, you can really have the touchpoint for not too long in the day, but you can also at the same time live in the app if you want to really dive into it. So it's really kind of customizable that way. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.28.14]

 I have reminders now. I've set like at the start of it, when I did the, the leader character practitioner course, we got access to the app and I thought it was great. There was resources there, but I wasn't actively engaged in it. I would open it, find some resources, close it again. Now, with this program, I'm actually setting daily reminders to enter my information or to enter the, to go through the app. The information that's available on it is more and more meaningful and impactful to me now, because I actually know what it's talking about. I know the intent behind the app. So yeah, I think it's great. And the more I learn about it, the better it becomes. 

Corey Crossan

[00.29.04]

 Yeah. It's, your experience isn't unique. I would say to you in the sense that when we just put the app in the hands of somebody or, you know, as a tool after a 101 workshop, the uptake isn't that great, I would say, and I would say, like, you know, whenever you're trying to develop a habit, it's really hard to change a habit. So there's actually a lot of structures and kind of accountability systems that we need to support these types of tools. And so when we design the Virtuosity program, it's really this idea of creating one, an accountability system that, you know, we're going to be checking in once a month and you're going to be able to unpack your experiences with one another. This whole structure and design around tools, I think, is a really powerful insight that we're taking away. So if anyone is thinking about using Virtuosity app, for those listeners, it is really important to have some kind of support and design system around that, or else the uptake is most likely, for most people, going to be quite low. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.30.03]

 Oh for sure. And that's you know, that's what's neat about it is that it does provide the information. It does provide an avenue to track your progress and ask you the questions that we should all be thinking if we're trying to change a habit. Right. 

Corey Crossan

[00.30.21]

 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, we always refer to exercise and, you know, health, nutrition, all that kind of stuff akin to character development because it's habits that we're trying to develop. And, you know, if you think about trying to get to the gym three or four or five times a week, you're much more likely to get to the gym if you're going with a buddy. If you have these structures and accountability processes set up around you. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.30.44]

 Yeah. 

Corey Crossan

[00.30.45]

 So as we are wrapping up towards the end of our time here, I'm going to be asking all of our guests the same question actually. And so you set to be the first one to go through this as our guinea pig. So Mary and I have been working on something and it's going to be published in her next Forbes article called The Character Quotient. And essentially what this is getting at is thinking about the degree to which we're practicing character across multiple levels, thinking about our awareness, our development, embedding character, championing character, all those kinds of things. And so I've asked you to assess your character quotient. And for the listeners, I will provide a link to the Forbes article with the assessment so that listeners can take this. But yeah, so you've had the chance, essentially there's ten statements and you go through each statement and you give yourself a score of 0 to 10, giving you a percentage as a final score. So I've asked you to take that. What did your character quotient percentage end up being? And maybe you could talk about some areas you're proud of and the areas that you're finding a little bit more challenging. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.31.53]

 Well, I was feeling generous when I went through this, so I have 83. I think the, the now anyway, going through, you know, Virtuosity and or working through Virtuosity and the leader character practitioner course - the first statement, for example, I can observe and identify the character dimensions of myself and others, I think for the most part, I can, I'm not always right, I'm not always, able to do it. But I think, you know, generally I can. So that was kind of neat to see that. 

Corey Crossan

[00.32.31]

 And a very powerful place to start to, I think, you know, as you go through these ten statements, sometimes, you know, when you see what you're lacking, it can be disappointing. But actually, even just that first statement is so powerful. So it's actually something to be really proud of. And it goes a long, long, long way.

Chuck Ansell

[00.32.48]

 Because you're also taking the time to identify. It's one thing to observe the character dimensions, it's another to actually identify them and say, oh, I know that, okay, I know what they're doing, you know? And that to me is something that I've learned over this character journey, is more so the identification of the character dimensions as opposed to just observing the dimensions. 

Corey Crossan

[00.33.12]

 Absolutely. And on that too, I think, you know, hopefully what you're starting to see in the Virtuosity app is actually habituated to this idea of observing virtues and vices, because virtues and vices show up so differently. Even, you know, we know across cultures, across industry, but even the person you work with. So it's their virtues and vices differently. So hopefully over the years that you use Virtuosity, you'll even start to see that in a much more nuanced way, as I continue to even see it more nuanced day in and day out. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.33.45]

 The other one was, point four, I guess, statement for my character development is informed by evidence based science on habit development. I was a little bit low. I went low on that. For me, I guess maybe it's because I've been on this earth for so long. I kind of have set my ways on doing certain things. So if I know it, fine, I identify. I'll accept it. I'm not, you know, I'll take responsibility if it's something. But for me, for my character development, I wouldn't say it's right with the seven strategies or very, like, rigid on how to how to develop that. For me, I do my best to be a person of strong character, and I know that I'm not perfect at it, but I do my best. And if somebody has identified something, or if I recognize something in myself, then I work at correcting it. 

Corey Crossan

[00.34.49]

 Yeah. Yeah. I think that piece is really interesting that you bring up like the evidence based approach versus how we might be making it work already in our everyday lives, and something that we're starting to explore a little bit more is this combination of the science and art of character development and how can we, you know, the art is how we actually make it work in our own lives, and it's going to look different from person to person. And so we're thinking about how can we twin up the science. So what we really know works for most people. But then also once we learn that science, how it can really beautifully manifest differently person to person, so that it actually works in each person's life in their own contexts and circumstances. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.35.30]

 Yeah, I agree. It's good.

Corey Crossan

[00.35.33]

Anything else on that scale that jumps out to you, I mean, 83%, that's a pretty high score. So you should give yourself a nice pat on the back. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.35.42]

 Maybe I was too generous. We'll see how, when the series gets to about the middle point, we'll see what other people have scored themselves at. And I was probably, I was feeling generous. 

Corey Crossan

[00.35.53]

 Well, you are doing a lot when you know, I'm sure the listeners will hear it from this episode. Like you, it's so strongly embedded into your professional life, it's not a surprise to me that it would be such a high percentage. So I'm sure you weren't too generous.

Chuck Ansell

[00.36.09]

We'll find out. I think the last one too. I actively work to embed character in my context. even though I have been involved in a lot of, training, character development, even though it forms our, like, Canadian armed forces, the ethos of who we are. For me, it's actively working on it. Can I do better? Yeah, sure, I can do. Or I shouldn't say better. Maybe different. Can I do it, is there a different way to embed character? And there is. And I'm constantly trying to find that better way. So I had a lower score for that one, because I'm not at the point where I just hang my hat up and retire on the character front. Right. So there's always things we can do different. I wouldn't say better necessarily, but different, maybe to reach more people, maybe to get the information out there. But yeah, actively working to embed character in my context. 

Corey Crossan

[00.37.11]

 Yeah. Yeah, it sounds really cool. And even just, that weekly newsletter that you send out, I think is such a great example of the unique ways that you're already thinking about getting character out there differently. And that relates to I think we have a question on there around championing character. How are you getting that character word out there? And so that newsletter example is another really creative way to do that. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.37.37]

 Yeah. And it's, you know, it takes me a while to write because it's a weekly thing. So it takes me a while. But at the end of the day, if it's caused one conversation or sorry, started one conversation in the office or one conversation at home, then it's all worth it, right? Because that was one more conversation on character. 

Corey Crossan

[00.37.55]

 Oh, absolutely. Maybe you should think about sharing that newsletter with the greater character community beyond your organization. I would love to see that.

Chuck Ansell

[00.38.03]

It's actually gone from the unit to the wing level, which is one organizational level higher than us at the unit. And then it's hit a few DND, so civilian government employees in Ottawa. And it makes, it's been translated now in both official languages, English and French. And it's been sent to other units too. So hopefully it's catching on and hopefully and again, I mean all of this is great, but it needs to start a conversation on character. It needs to get people thinking about their character. 

Corey Crossan

[00.38.42]

 Absolutely, absolutely. So as we come down to the final minutes here, is there anything else that we haven't covered that you'd like to share? 

Chuck Ansell

[00.38.53]

 Oh my goodness. No, I just I think this is great. I think character and the Virtuosity, I just started the program, you know, two months ago. Three months ago. So I'm excited to see what comes out of it. I'm excited to work more with the app. I'm looking forward to, even talking to the groups when we have our meetings because they're great people. So for me, I'm excited on this journey and I want do as much as I can to help people identify their character anyway, and at the same time as working on mine.

Corey Crossan

[00.39.35]

 Absolutely. Yeah. I think we're in for a great 2025 with the cohort we have. We have a great, great group of people. Great conversations to come. So we've got another good nine months ahead of us. 

Chuck Ansell

[00.39.48]

 Yeah. No, it's good and it's something to look forward to. And it's the whole year. So I mean what's better than that. Yeah. 

Corey Crossan

[00.39.53]

 Yeah. Absolutely. Well thank you so much, Chuck, for well, being our first, our first guest. Being our first guinea pig. It's been really great catching up with you. And thanks to the listeners for tuning in. Yeah, that's all we have for today, so bye for now.

Chuck Ansell

[00.40.12]

Thank you.

Corey Crossan

[00.40.14]

You have just finished another episode from the Virtuosity podcast. If you have any questions and want to connect, please reach out to me at corey@virtuositycharacter.ca. I'm also on LinkedIn, so let's connect. As always, thank you so much for listening. Bye for now. 

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Chuck Ansell

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